[Mb-civic] come on guys

[Cheeseburger]

Re:  come on guys


Ian wrote:

*snip*

======
Cheeseburger and others are unarguably correct that the vast majority of 
mainstream heirarchical organized religion has little if anything to do 
with what Jesus did, said, preached and taught.  I have never suggested 
otherwise.  However, it is important to understand the difference - which 
is not semantic - between the idea that "evil" emanated "from" organized 
religion, and the understanding that, spirituo-historically, this simply is 
not, and cannot be, the case, since "evil" and the "dark forces" predate 
"organized religion."
======

*snip*


Good post, Ian.  You made some good points and I learned something.

One question:

In your above paragraph,

There may be an "Evil One" that "spirituo-historically" "sprang from 
somewhere near" "the beginning" of "everything" for all anyone knows, 
however, if one considers the Will of "men", that "Original Evil" is not 
necessarily the origin of such "evil men do", but rather of their own making.

Whether all "evil thoughts" come from influences of "the original evil", 
going along with that "spritituo-historic" indication, the part of the 
equation that appears to be left out of that is that, yes, we *were* given 
"something" (besides who knows what else we were given), and that was the 
power "To Choose" and make choices.

Whether the "evil" that comes from some aspects of "Organized Religion" and 
other "establishments" and "Interested Parties" has its base founded by an 
influence of that "original evil" or is nothing more than Personal Willful 
Choice, I would have to still sit here and ponder.

Certainly the night air is filled with mystery, however, it's always fun to 
think about such things, now and then, hehe...


Again, as to "Peace".  I like "Peace".

I just seem to remember that Freedom ranks somewhere higher than Peace.

As if one has True Freedom, surely Peace will be present.

If one has Peace, however, in some cases it remains that one is not 
necessarily free while enjoying it.


And now, with your indulgence, hoping you are as open-minded as you might 
seem about some things, one of my "Jesus Jokes", heh:

Jesus was up on the cross.  A crowd gathered around him.  The Roman 
soldiers were laughing, poking him with spears, and feeding him vinegar on 
a sponge.  The apostle Peter was standing there with tears in his eyes when 
suddenly he heard Jesus exclaim "Peter..!!".  Peter summoned his courage 
and ran through the crowd to the edge of the clearing, and the Roman 
soldiers beat him up and through him back out.  A bit of time went on, and 
again Peter heard Jesus exclaim "Peter...!!  "Peter...!!".  Peter, bruised 
and beaten, summoned his courage again, and burst through the crowd half 
way across the clearing, and the Roman soldiers beat him up again and 
through him back out.  Severely beaten this time, Peter lay there with 
tears rolling down his cheeks unable to reach Jesus, when again he heard 
Jesus exclaim in a louder voice "Peter...!!  Peter...!!".  Peter pulled 
himself from the ground, summoned all his courage and strength and might, 
burst through the crowd, burst through the soldiers, crossed the clearing, 
and flung his arms around the base of the cross.  "What, my 
Lord...!!  What, my Lord...!!" he cried upwards.  Jesus looked down and 
smiled "Peter..!!  Peter..!!  I can see your house from up here.....!!"

:)





Cheeseburger

- Where has the sparrow gone now that I need its song.