[Mb-civic] A Planet Of Life

[Cheeseburger]

Re:  A Planet Of Life

Ian wrote:

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It would be disingenuous to disagree that I (and all Christians, or anyone
who believes in a particular spirituo-religious construct) may be wrong in
our beliefs.  That is always a possibility.  I can only reiterate that, at
least in Christianity, we "walk by faith, not by sight."
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True "faith" cannot be accompanied by doubt.

If it is, it becomes more of a hobby, so to speak, rather than a belief.

Rather like putting all your chips on one square, yet acknowledging to 
oneself at the same time that you are sitting at a roulette wheel, where 
the ball could stop anywhere.

One is either truly swimming, or laying in the bathtub dreaming about it.


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That said, keep in mind that the Judeo-Christian construct (especially the
Christian part) speaks of the "temporal" world - i.e., that which humankind
sees and experiences - and the "spiritual" world - that which is outside the
realm of human "sight."  However, some of us have had "spirit" experiences
in which we have had "peeks" - whether visual, aural or other - into the
"spiritual" world.  And I'm not talking "ghosts" etc. here.  I'm talking
about the "other" world that exists not simply "parallel" to ours, but
simultaneous with it: the one in which the various "spirits" - angels,
demons, etc. - exist.  This does not necessarily prove the "correctness" of
our construct of "evil," but it certainly gives us pause.
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Ok, let's clarify this and avoid contradictions.  If you speak of "peeks" 
into the "spiritual" (or "whatever" it is) world, and you make the claim 
cum assumption that "spirits" "angels" "demons" "etc" exist in it, you 
cannot therefore exclude "ghosts", which all in all are nothing more than a 
term similar, if not exactly, to the preceding "beings" you have given 
"names" to, even if their designations of existence might vary.

Let us also note that it is not solely the Judeo-Christian "construct" 
which has found itself referring to the "other world", but that it is 
rather a global "exclamation" throughout history.

I'm not challenging that "it" exists, as I already know it exists from 
personal experience sans book larnin', but am rather just pointing out that 
"the other world" is a rather universal concept.

p.s.:  Anyone who has ever done acid has had a "peek" into the "other 
world", or at least one of them if more than one exists.

On another note, we all know "evil" exists.  We see it every day even in 
the "temporal" world, the one we "live" in, or at least think that we live 
in to the extent we believe we experience it on various levels.

If "the other world" exists, which it (maybe even multiple ones) does, 
trust me, "evil" certainly exists there as well.

So, conclusion, we most likely have "good" and "evil" existing in both 
"this" world and the "other" world, or maybe even "multiple" worlds.

Again, however, such a concept is found in almost every culture cum 
religion in all the nations throughout all of history, and therefore is not 
necessarily either the product nor the "fulfillment" of any particular 
individual one.

To me it often all looks like "The Same Story", one single story, and it 
was spread across the entire earth to all the races and their 
"interpretations" of it survived the original story, in one form or another.

And then their egos stepped in and they, each, began to claim supremacy of 
Infinite Knowledge, Supreme Connection, etc etc etc yada yada yada.

And that's when the trouble all started.


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As for Einstein and multiple universes, ironically enough (given that I am a
minister), I am probably among the best-read and educated lay people re
theoretical physics, hyperspace, the superstring theory and multiple
universes.  In addition to reading dozens of books on the subject, Michio
Kaku - one of the most respected theoretical and nuclear physicists in the
world, and a major force in the superstring theory - was my professor.  In
this regard, I was fascinated by the concept of multiple universes
(according to hyperspace theory, there are ten) for a very "Christian"
reason: i.e., could one of those universes be what Christians call "Heaven?"
(And, of course, the question could also be asked: could one of them be
"Hell?").
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In all probability, yes, the actual "possibility" exists within such an 
equation.


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How do we know where the living spirit - the soul - goes after
death?
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It goes somewhere other than this "temporal" world.  Where that "is" 
remains debatable among the masses and the scholars.


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Sure, atheists and other non-believers believe that "when you die,
you die"; end of story, no future for the soul.
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Excluding any religious connotations, the "being", call it what one will, 
definitely "travels on" after "this life".  Trust me, there are millions of 
very surprised "athiests", who although not perhaps believing in a "God", 
have found after they have "passed on" that there is *definitely* 
"something" "over there".


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Yet for those of us who DO
believe, it is beyond our understanding to know "where" Heaven is.
======

Before I became a rock god, guitarist, songwriter, actor, 
multi-millionaire, etc, I was a simple unharried poet, a very phenomenal 
one, that's how I began it all, as a child.  Not that any of that is 
exclusively relevant to anything, but I once wrote a poem, long long ago (I 
used to write long and extremely short poems, lol) that went something like 
"Heaven is in the minds of men...".  For all I know, that's where it may 
lay, if it truly exists.

The "mind" is such a phenomenal thing to begin with, who knows what's 
hiding in there, lol......    :)

However, if a "heaven" exists, it may truly lay just outside our "current 
perception" as "creatures of earth".  Swirling all about us, completely, 
normally, unnoticed.

As well as "anything else".


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And
since it almost certainly is not within the "timespace" that humankind knows
(the universe we live in), if it exists, it must exist in some alternate
timespace.  The hyperspace theory opens up that possibility.
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I'll have to stick with the "space" part of that "theory" and exclude the 
"time" part, as there are probably about 2 people, at least, looking over 
my shoulder right about now, and if you were here, you would swear there 
was nothing there whatsoever.

That being said, if "correct", which, unfortunately, I no longer have to 
guess about such things, then they are existing in the same "time" frame, 
albeit a different "space".

As an aside, I believe that was the original premise of that movie "The 
Exorcist", some "being" desired to both habitate the same space of a 
"temporal" being at the same time as well.

"It", whatever it was, came from "the other side", whatever and wherever 
that is.


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Thus, despite those who see science and faith (or religion) as mutually
exclusive, I firmly believe that each serves the other, but that we simply
don't have the knowledge or understanding to see the overlaps and parallels.
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First, faith is not religion.

People used to ask me so many times whether I was "religious" or not, that 
I got sick of it and simply stopped talking for a year (The World According 
To Garp, lol), and then I began replying "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual".

One doesn't need religion to practice faith, even though we have all been 
taught that from day one.  If an actual "true real bonafide unsullied by 
human touch 'religion' " exists, I have no doubts that any "faith" will 
find a way to catch up to it.

Especially in the face of the twisted vehicle (religion) for practicing 
one's faith this "temporal world" has turned it into.

Who knows what's on "the other side" or which "God" is "right" or if there 
is a "God" or if there is a "heaven" or a "hell" or whatever...

Some people might know.  Normally they don't talk a lot about it, or are 
already in loony bins getting their thorazine shots because they are 
considered "madmen" from their vocalizations of their "peeks".

I do know that "something" is "over there" and that even though there might 
be some "good" over there, there definitely is also "something" over there 
that is not happy at all watching earth, mankind, etc blossom and grow and 
be happy.  Their "reasons" might tend to be even more varied than one can 
imagine.  Who knows.

"Religion" is one thing, kid, "Science" is completely another.

Science, although possibly streamlined to hypothesize, extrapolate, and 
derive answers as to "what is all this about, how is it made, and how does 
it all fit together", would seem to me, although it's "quest" might be 
"pure", no more than an attempt to explain it, label it, and blackmail the 
FDA into bottling it so someone here in this "temporal world" can make a 
fortune off of it.  Normally the "men of power" who wield the "works" of 
"men of science" on a regular basis so disasterously.

Although a rather shorter more involved treatise would normally accompany 
such an "explanation", I tend to consider that the "Science" that is 
capable of contributing to the very Death and Suffering of this planet and 
its Inhabitants in this "temporal world" in such myriad displays from 
nuclear weapons, to pesticides, to chemicals, mercury, lethal weapons, you 
name it ad infinitum, definitely does not have any "faith's" or 
"religion's" best interests at heart.

No matter how cute it is when it flashes its tits at you.

Although "Science" might be a road which leads to some form of 
"enlightenment" as to "what it is all about", perhaps even on just a basic 
"Physics" level of cognizance, this "temporal world", and the ruthless men 
and women who have wielded it, has found it more profitable to create Death 
and Destruction with the tools of "Science", rather than nurturing what 
they found around them.

There may indeed be "overlaps" and "parallels" between "the two".

The only problem is that nobody has yet written a definitive work on "The 
Laws Of The Universe" by which one might be able to truly make an 
unquestionable rational comparison of any mutual "exclusivity" or 
"non-exclusivity".

Science ain't Faith.  Faith ain't Religion.

True, "our" ability to perceive, conceive, and concretely "prove" all 
"aspects" of all those "things", among so many others, *is* rather stunted 
by our limited knowledge and understanding of all of them.

But at least out of all of it there is one shining rainbow among all the 
gray areas, I finally understand the origins of that old game "Peek"-a-boo....

:|

They *might* truly all "walk down the same path" together.

But it's rather obvious now at this late date, that as they are all going 
down that "path" "hand in hand" that one of them is hopping, one is 
skipping, and one is jumping.

As for me, I'm still just staring at it all.....



Cheeseburger

- Where has the sparrow gone now that I need its song.